SPEAKER_00 0:00

BBC Gardeners World live at the NEC in Birmingham. Another scorching day. Goodness me. The people have been coming through the door in their thousands to see some amazing gardens, borders, plants, exhibitors. Goodness, there's too much for one day. One of the great areas is the uh borders, beautiful borders. Uh and among those is the Make a Meter Matter, which is a huge campaign which has been running all year. Uh de Graft Mensa, known from Newsround, and Lucy Chamberlain, known for podcasts, books, and lots of other things at Gardeners World Live, have done the Make a Meter Matter here this year. I'm delighted that Lucy joins me in the studio. In the cool, yes, it's warm outside, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:46

It's it's quite humid and muggy out there, and when the sun comes out, oh my gosh, it's got some heat to it. But it's lovely that it's definitely drawn the clouds out, Steve. There's loads of people out there trying to move from one area of the show to another. It's hard work.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

And there's lots of people frantically running about with watering cans and things for the gardens. That was me this morning. Now, your Make A Meter Matter, which is almost like a tongue twister, isn't it? Um, is fantastic and it's sort of U-shaped, uh, isn't it? Which is really good. You've done it with Degraft Mensa, uh known on Newsround, and I've I'd spoken to him. Um, but tell me about the concept for how you have used your space.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yes, of course. So this, as you say, is a campaign that's been running for a few years now, and um I was asked to produce a site that has a a grow your own theme to it because that is my love. I love growing fruit and veg and herbs. So we have their uh horseshoe shape of nine square metres, and um what we're trying to showcase at the NEC show, being very mindful that it's a more of a city-based show than say Beauley or Audley End, are ideas that people can literally take away with them. And that with the feedback of the gardener I've been standing there and listening to, that that has worked. It's been so lovely that people have got the idea. Um so yeah, we've got nine square metres, they're divided into three different sort of zones. So we've got a children's gardening zone, so getting kids into growing their own food. We've got one where people are maybe renting, um, because obviously in you know, or they've got very little outdoor space. So in cities you've got lots of high-rise apartments, you've got people that maybe are passing through, they've got that rental mindset, they don't like to be planting into the ground, or they've got a say a courtyard or a balcony and they can't plant into the ground, so that's another really important zone that the graft and I thought would be really well placed to be at Birmingham. And then there's also the um there's also another zone about fruit. I'm really passionate about growing fruit. Vegetables get lots and lots of time. Growing fruit is is a very rewarding thing to do, and it's easy once the plants get settled in, they really crop very well. And you can grow fruit in a small space. So we've got three ideas within the fruit zone that uh hopefully people will be inspired by.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Absolutely. And and the the small footprint for each of those is is the important bit, isn't it? Because, as you said, not everybody who comes to the show has a big garden. It's also done as a raised bed. Yes. Um, which is gaining in popularity hand over fist, isn't it? The idea of creating the uh a raised bed.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We've got um quick, quick growing things for children.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

So um like me and a short attention span.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

My daughter, I absolutely love her to pieces, but you get her on one project and she's with you, completely committed for maybe three or more minutes, then she's off. So we're very mindful, um, de Graft and I that children's attention span, like I say, is short. So we've got lots of speedy stuff in one of the zones. So there's things that are very evocative to them. We've got some Corsican mint, which is very, very low-growing. It's only about sort of eight, ten mil high, and it creates this beautiful carpet of tiny green leaves. It's very attractive. But when you rub it with your fingers, and we've been encouraging children to do that, the smell of the mint, it hits you, it's so, so strong. And to see these children's faces, think, wow, that little plant, it's producing that amazing fragrance. That is lovely. And yeah, like you say, they could have a little pot of that in their garden, just one pot of Corsican mint, they can rub it, they can use it in cooking. It's you know, it's a it's a lovely little powerhouse of flavour. That's what herbs are to me. So that's been one thing that's been very, very popular. And we've got little, I say it's little cutter-come-again leaves. We've got these wonderful three pots at the front of the garden which spell out MMM, but you could easily write in there your child's name. For example, my my nephew Tom, I've sewn micro leaves in grow bags which then emerge in three or four days, and it spells out their name. So that's a those sorts of ideas of what we really tapped into to to entice those children in, and it's quick and instant and gratifying.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Absolutely, uh, and it mentions in the show guide that of course it inspires them to grow things where they can make pizzas and smoothies and put things in pasta, which which creates a a clumsy way of putting it, but a reality for them, doesn't it? It comes out of the ground, you can cook it and eat it.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Absolutely. If we can it show to anyone, children, adults, anyone, that so everyone, you know, we love tomato pasta. My daughter loves pizza, we have pizza nights every Sunday. Um, so we sit there, and on that pizza will be tomatoes, there'll be basil, there'll be rocket. There's lots and lots of things that go into these mainstay ingredients that so many households are eating and enjoying, and their kids love. So we thought let's show the children what the plants look like. So we've got, like I say, tomatoes, we've got rocket, we've got lots of lovely basil as well, which is the scent of that. Oh my god, it's delicious. Um, and that just shows the children where the food comes from. I know, like you say, it's so important to just educate people. It's not just coming from a jar from a supermarket shelf, it comes that tomato in that jar comes from this plant. You can see it, it's right there in front of you. You can grow it yourself. We've got these little tiny tomatoes called micro tom. They literally are about 15 centimetres in diameter and about four centimetres high. And they're smothered with about a dozen little cherry tomatoes. So they don't need any training, any side shooting. For a child to just have that given to them in a little pot and they see that grow, they haven't got to kind of get befuddled by all the training, they just leave it, water it, keep it alive, and you'll get these cherry toms which children love. They just pop them in their mouth. Oh, what if we can do that? How wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yeah, absolutely, and it's come a long way since uh I was doing Cress on uh cotton wool in the window when I was uh the great the thing I love about this, Lucy, is that through working with De Graft, who is so well known through news round, people come and see him. He's working with you, bringing that whole horticultural thing, is because he said to me he's on a learning curve and it's introducing um more young people to the importance of being involved in horticulture. Yes, and you and I have spoken before, haven't we? Which is about there are perhaps not enough young people looking to get involved in horticulture when they leave school or as a profession more so than a than a hobby. And this is the sort of thing that helps engage, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 7:24

It really does, and like you say, that engagement is fundamental to then make people think maybe you know, a few years down the line, actually, maybe this is a career I can do. If I want to maybe grow food for a restaurant, for example, you know, that is a really exciting role to have. Or be involved in conservation or wildlife management, or you know, just growing your own food and being involved in local community projects. There are so many career paths that can be taken by people that involve either growing their own food or say encouraging wildlife. Lots of things that I think the young are very mindful of. My daughter is is constantly being told at school about wildlife and about um plants and about um they've got like a little wildlife garden and an outdoor forest garden. So it's definitely in the curriculum, but I just think um, you know, my memories as a youngster were of being with my grandparents and my granddad growing peas, and then you know, we would go and pick the peas for Sunday lunch, eat some of the peas, obviously. You know, my grandma would grew sweet peas, we'd go and pick those. The scent of the sweet pea now again is it's so evocative to me, and I think if we can do that for children now, that will tap into them that um multi-sensory experience, which actually makes you think I want to do this, I want to be part of this. This is something I recognise and I can identify, and I I want to be in my life, and you can make a good profession out of it, you know, you really can.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Should it be something that is um has more focus in the school curriculum?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, I I say it does have a little, but I would be all over um encouraging children to be far more involved in it because you know, gardening does help. Um, yes, we're growing our own food, but also it does help conservation and wildlife. And you know, we're so now mindful of the climate and pollution and the weather and what's happening. Um, so why not you know allow children to have a deeper connection with that and understand the nuts and bolts that go into making this massively global phenomenon? Uh, we if we can just understand the components, we can then maybe take decisions as adults or take career paths that allow us to educate people to say, actually, maybe don't keep buying packaged things from the supermarket. Maybe grow your own or or whatever it might be, just those little seeds of um conservation and wildlife and things that can be fulfilling in so many ways.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn't have to be expensive. Uh I mean seeds are sort of pocket money type prices, don't they? Or you can take cuttings or of course if you if you do buy your uh herbs from supermarkets, you can, you know, they come in pots, you can split them all up, plant, eat two, plant one.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

You know, which would seem to be a good way of doing it. Um what are the what are the easiest things? For somebody, somebody who's uh you know who wants to try it and and give it a go, they've only got some you know average size pots on a windowsill or or on the you know a patio at the back or something. What are the easiest two or three things for them to to have a go with?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah, definitely. So cut and come again salad leaves are brilliant. They're so quick, um, they take up very, very little space, and they are they yield really heavily, really heavily. So um you can get now, you know, obviously lettuce is a backbone of salad, but you can get these mixtures if you've got you know things like rocket, things like mustard, um different coloured lettuces. You've got you know maybe some chard in there or some spinach. Um so you you sow that as it into a pot, give it some water, maybe after five or six weeks you just shear the whole thing down, and that is your loose leaf salad. And it will re-sprout if you water it, um give it another few weeks, it will regrow. So, space-wise, very, very compact and speedy, um, and like I say, really, really productive. Strawberries is another one. You know, we've got loads of strawberries on the garden because they're very, very popular. You know, they are again a wonderful thing for a newcomer to gardening to get to grips with and and and pick the strawberries from. You know, the you may not get a massive, massive yew, but the satisfaction of picking a strawberry that's warm from the sun and popping it straight in your mouth is is wonderful, and that smell that they give. And the flowers are so good for wildlife as well. So we've got bumblebees all over the flowers of the strawberries in our on our border. So that would be great. Um, yeah, I think they would say say salad leaves, strawberries, I've got to think of another. Pea shoots.

unknown 11:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Can I mention pea shoots?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

I know I can they're so very popular, but because the fr if you want to grow peas and get a pod, it takes you know, I'll be sowing in February. I might not be harvesting till May, June. Okay, so it's quite a long thing. But if you want to get that fresh pea flavour and do so in maybe three weeks, four weeks, just get yourself a packet of pea seed, so it doesn't even need to be in compost, it can be on, like you say, some damp kitchen paper, but a little shallow saucer with a bit of compost and keep it moist. The peas will germinate, they'll shoot, and when they get to about eight centimetres, two or ten centimetres, again, shear them off, eat them, and they are delicious, they're tender, they're not fibrous or woody, they're still so young and succulent, and they taste just like fresh peas from the pod. So there you go, that's my three.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

And a tremendous three it is, too. Um, congratulations on the make a meter massa that you've done with the graft menser here uh at the show. I know it's been incredibly busy. I walked past this morning, there were people photographing every little bit of it and making notes. Uh, so another huge success for you here at uh the show, Lucy. Um and you've got another couple of days uh working on the plant experts, uh you?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

I have, yeah, I have.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

With the weird and wonderful questions.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Weird and wonderful, marvellous questions that the gardening public bring us. Yeah, I'm there with Saul Walker and some of the Hilliers team as well. Um, and we're answering any any questions that the garden public may fire at us as long as they're gardening related. So, yeah, and we're getting, you know, it's it's a lovely way to be at the coal face and to understand exactly what the gardening public are concerned about. Maybe what um pests or diseases are more prevalent in some years, other than you know, compared to others, because it every year is completely different. Um, we get lots of identity questions of plants. People now with their phones can easily send snap a photograph of a plant in their garden or something they've seen out and about, and we can identify it for them. Uh yeah, it's a it's a lovely thing to be involved in and it keeps my skills up, which is great, it keeps the old grey matter working.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Long days, aren't they? And that's marquee when it's warm and humid.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

I know, but we've we're very close to a door, and all um we get given given packets of biscuits on a frequent occurrence as well because that's um that's much appreciated. We're we're well looked after.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

It is living the dream.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Horticulture and biscuits. Yeah, absolutely. Doesn't get a cup of tea, biscuits, gardening. I'm uh in my happy place.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Really good to catch up with you, Lucy. Many thanks.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Thank you.